Thus says the Lord: "Stand by the roads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'" --Jeremiah 6:16

 

15 November, 2005   comments: (0) Today's Methods   More Audience-Sovereignty 101, Robert Schuller Have you heard the new lyrics for Amazing Grace? Instead of "saved a wretch like me" some churches are singing "saved and strengthened me". That fits in perfectly with Robert Schuller's modern definition of sin as "any act or thought that robs myself or another human being of his or her self-esteem". Several weeks ago, I posted part 1 in this series of clips from the two-hour interview by Michael Horton on the White Horse Inn radio program. This interview was conducted several years ago, with Robert Schuller of the Crystal Cathedral. Listen to a 1 minute audio clip, and read these excerpts from that interview: HORTON: Dr. Schuller, "The real problem," you have written, "is that deep down we feel we're not good enough to approach a holy God." But isn't that the truth about us. Isn't that precisely why we need the cross because we cannot approach a holy God in our own righteousness. In other words, isn't that fear legitimate; the distance between a holy God and a sinful people, isn't that meant to drive us to despair of our own righteousness and flee to Christ. SCHULLER: Maybe so, I wouldn't quarrel with that. I have no argument with that. HORTON: Well on what texts would you base your definition of sin as "any act or thought that robs myself or another human being of his or her self-esteem." SCHULLER: Try some other questions because I think your question isn't uh, isn't...I don't understand it. HORTON: Okay. If the definition of sin is "any act or thought that robs myself or another human being of his or her self-esteem," then, first of all.... SCHULLER: Okay, okay, I can handle that. That's a little piece. Any sinful act that arises out of the sinful condition, and I have to repeat, sin is a condition before it is an action. HORTON: Absolutely. We would agree a hundred percent on that. But what is that condition? SCHULLER: That condition is, you are separated from God, totally and completely. And therefore you don't have the emotional and spiritual affirmation that only comes out of a relationship. And when you have a hostility between two persons instead of a trusting relationship, the normal inclination naturally is to become rebellious or "defensive;" we speak of this a defensive behavior (I come from a psychological background so I use probably different terminology, but there's no problem). So any behavior that is "sinful behavior" is obviously going to space you farther from the possibility of a closeness with the God that alone could affirm you through grace of your value as persons. And I keep saying, the single most important thing for people to know is what God thinks of them. And I'll tell you what God thinks of you: if you were the only person that didn't have this wonderful relationship with him, why he would take his son and crucify him as your saviour. HORTON: But why would He have to do that Dr. Schuller if in fact the only problem that I have with God is that I am non trusting and lack self confidence? SCHULLER: Wait, wait, wait, wait! The "only thing!" That's everything! That's Hell!...To be non-trusting is the ultimate sinful condition. * * * * * HORTON: Dr. Schuller, how could the cross as you write, "sanctify the ego trip," and make us proud, in the light of passages that say, "I hate pride and arrogance (Prov. 8:13), "Pride goes before destruction" (Prov. 16:18),"The Lord detests all the proud" (Prov. 16:5), "Do not be proud"(Rom. 12:16), "Love does not boast it is not proud" (1Cor 13:4). In fact Paul warns Timothy that in the last days men "will be lovers of themselves" (2Tim 3:2). Why should we as Christian ministers, myself included, why should we do anything to encourage people to become "lovers of themselves" if Paul in fact warned others that that would be the state of godlessness in the last days? SCHULLER: I hope you don't preach this, I hope you don't preach this! HORTON: What, the texts? SCHULLER: No, what you just spoke into the microphone right now. I hope you don't because you could do a lot of damage to a lot of beautiful people. But maybe if you preach it, maybe you will demonstrate your knowledge of human relationships and maybe you'll demonstrate a sensitivity of caring about these pathetic, pathetic people that are so lost in pain and suffering because of their sinful condition, and I think you'd want to save them. I think you'd want to bring them to Jesus. And so if you preach that text, oh man, I sure hope you give it the kind of interpretation that I do or, I'll tell you, you'll drive them farther away and they'll be madder than hell at you and they'll turn the Bible off, and they'll switch you off, and they'll turn on the rock music and Madonna. Just because it's in the Bible doesn't mean you should preach it. And if you do, you have to say, "Who's listening to me? Will they understand? And will the love of Jesus come through my words and through my message; through my personality. Will it come through my spirit? Will I come across as a humble person or will I come across as a person who's kind of mean and know-it-all: I've got the answers and when people like Schuller come along, they're heretics! Be careful, it is so difficult to preach some of those texts and not come across as lacking humility... * * * * * HORTON: You write that "the essence of sin is not thinking you're good enough" and that the reason unsaved people reject the gospel is that they "believe they're an unworthy sinnner." Again you state that "the unsaved person cannot perceive himself as worthy of divine grace and hence rejects it." But how can a person deserve "undeserved favor"? SCHULLER: No I never said that....I didn't say that the essence of sin is not thinking you're good enough." I never said that. I know my words. Someone read what I said, re-wrote it, put these words together very carelessly. One adjective placed or misplaced tips the meaning.... HORTON: How about the next phrase... SCHULLER: I never said that see....so I really don't think the rest of the paragraph deserves the time and attention. Thank you. (The program goes out to a break and returns with Mike's promise to check his citation with the original -- which incidentally was later found in Schuller's book, "Self Esteem, The New Reformation" -- then Mike asks the following): HORTON: But Dr. Schuller, did you write "The unsaved person cannot perceive himself as worthy of divine grace and hence rejects it."? SCHULLER: I may have said that because I am inclined to believe very definitely that the person who is lost and unsaved is afraid of the light. The person who is only used to darkness is afraid of the light and I think unsaved people do not consider themselves worthy enough; I think that's absolutely true, "While we were yet sinners Christ died for us." HORTON: But not while we were worthy Christ died for us? SCHULLER: Listen, if Christ had died for somebody who wasn't worth anything that would have been a lousy deal. God is a good steward and he teaches us to be good stewards. God knows the worst sinner is worth saving so that he would die on a cross for us. HORTON: But how can we deserve undeserved favor? SCHULLER: You tell me! I don't have to answer that question. You're asking me how we can be saved by grace. It's because of the love of God, and we are saved by grace. HORTON: But if we are worth it, then it is not grace, it's merit. SCHULLER: No, no. It means that we are still creatures of God, we are still sons of God. We have value. We still have value. HORTON: I agree with you to the extent that we are created in the image of God... SCHULLER: And even the value of a human being who is not a Christian is worth dying for on the cross. That's what God said. Don't ask me why, that's his evaluation of who we are. HORTON: But isn't it really the goodness of God that moved him to put Christ on the cross, seeing our misery, rather than God seeing something in us worth redeeming? SCHULLER: Well... I think.... yes and yes. Yes and yes to that one.... Read how Robert Schuller influenced Rick Warren and may have strongly inspired his "keep it positive" purpose driven idealogy. Posted by: Jim B.   Link: http://www.oldtruth.com/blog.cfm/id.2.pid.106   Be the first to post a comment about this article        Home  |   About  |  Videos   |  Calvinism