Thus says the Lord: "Stand by the roads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'" --Jeremiah 6:16

 

7 December, 2007   comments: (0) Postmodern CRN.INFO   Chris Lyons: Heaven's Not Big Enough For You, Me, & Your Theology A blogger recently expressed these very tolerant sounding sentiments about how insidious it is when we "label other Christians with whom we hold doctrinal differences for the purpose of derision or questioning of their salvation. This has been typified in the Calvinist vs. Arminian debates for centuries". Irony of ironies, would you believe that the writer of those very words is quite accustomed to making sweeping statements that cast shadows of doubt over the salvation of entire segments of these theological groups? It's an interesting story, and it provides for a fitting example of how NOT to engage in debate over important theological matters such as these. Perhaps there is something that we can all learn from this. He goes on to say that this questioning of other's salvation is at best "childish arrogance (acting as if we assume that interpretations different from ours must not be of God), and at worst, it is Satanic (treating our opinion as if it is God's opinion)". Continuing, he reminds us that "All Christians make up the temple of the Holy Spirit, and when we exclude others from the God's house, based on our own prejudices and (often) pride in having all of the 'correct' interpretations and answers, and when we denigrate and berate them, we are, in effect, saying that we know better than God how to build His temple. This not a license for ignoring discernment, but a call for extension of Christian charity and grace to brothers and sisters in Christ." (emphasis mine) [source] That was Chris Lyons, who runs a couple of blogs including Fishing The Abyss, as well as the CRaM.info watcher of watchdogs. What's ironic is how someone who makes repeated and vigorous calls for Christian charity and grace, finds some way to make exceptions for groups that HE doesn't like. We all know about that other "peaceful world religion" that speaks of love but makes exceptions to commit some of the most atrocious acts imaginable. On a far lesser scale, Chris Lyons seems to operate under his own exception system that allows him to put aside his calls for charity and say things like this (most often to Calvinists): September 13th, 20007 comment on Relevant Christian: Chris Lyons says: we have been so heavily influenced by Greek fatalism and determinism, and then made this bastardized 'choice' of free will vs. predestination a lynchpin of faith is only a testament to the falleness of the world and its influence on the church. It is a slap in the face to God, because when we make it a test of the gospel, we really are teaching 'another gospel' all together. Here Chris Lyons is describing his take on Calvinism and along the way he invokes the "another gospel" charge from the book of Galatians. We all know what Paul said about the eternal destiny of those who preach another Gospel. Supposedly this time, Chris has in view - those Calvinists who make their soteriology a "test of the gospel", but this is a strawman; mainstream Calvinism disagrees with Arminianism - yes, but still considers Arminians to be believers in the same gospel. December 7, 2007 comment on CRaM.info: Chris Lyons says: But you and Calvin's boys apparently are bought in and sold out [on your systematic theology,] and Calvinism really is, for you, the gospel. Another gospel indeed. This one is perhaps the most troubling of Chris Lyons' anathemas against Calvinists. There is no qualifying types of Calvinists who are hell bound, there's no "Calvinists who believe or behave like XYZ aren't saved", there's only the claim of "another gospel" for any Calvinist who really holds to their beliefs in election and predestination. But why does Chris feel that strong beliefs on these things is equivalent to making them a "gospel"? He never explains how he can make that jump. We can safely assume by implication that, according to Chris Lyons, Calvinists like Whitefield, Edwards, Brainerd, Robert Murray M'Cheyne, and George Mueller who cared for thousands of orphans, all had a false belief and are now in hell. September 6, 2007 comment on CRaM.info: Chris Lyons says: The primary difficulty Paul had with the early church was the addition of requirements to the gospel by Jews and God-fearing Gentiles previously converted by Jewish missionaries. Additionally, it was with the insertion of gnostacism (which had a number of interesting and direct parallels to Calvinism, but that's a different subject) by Greek philosophers which he also fought with as being 'another gospel'. Supposedly Calvinists somehow parallel the Gnostics who were the first cult. Calvinists will be surprised to find out that their beliefs were paralleled by "another Gospel" that the Apostle actually "fought". Imagine the surprise of past Calvinists such as the Pilgrims, Puritans, so many great missionaries, bible expositors, and evangelists in church history, all being told they somehow parallel a Gnostic cult. September 13, 2007 comment on CRaM.info: Chris Lyons says: Whenever a systematic theology - be it Calvinism, Arminianism, Open Theism, Catholocism or the like - is raised to a cardinal doctrine, it then becomes truly 'another gospel'. Pompous statements like 'Calvinism is the gospel' are exactly what Paul condemned to the Corintians and the Galatians as 'a different gospel'. Once again it's another reference to those who elevate beliefs like Calvinism to a necessary "cardinal doctrine", but I've never met a Calvinist who has done this. Also, the "Calvinism is the gospel" quotation of Charles Spurgeon is constantly being ripped out of context by Chris Lyons on his various blogs. He uses it in isolation to make Calvinists sound exclusive, but you'll never hear Chris Lyons talk about how Spurgeon preached that there would have been no better 13th or 14th apostle than the Arminian John Wesley. Spurgeon displayed the charity that Chris Lyons lacks (yet calls for), towards those he disagreed with theologically. Interestingly, one of Chris' most frequent complaints on one of his blogs is that some people quote Rob Bell (a favorite pastor of Chris') out of context. It could be pointed out that I am only giving limited excerpts of Chris' words, but you will note that I am giving links for you to reference the full context of all of Chris' remarks. Something that Chris doesn't do for Spurgeon and some others. October 31st, 2007 comment on CRaM.info: Chris Lyons says: it is up to God to judge whether or not the extra-biblical systematic beliefs of Calvinism, Arminianism and other -isms are damnable offenses. ... Yes, it is up to God, isn't it. But it's unfortunate that Chris Lyons feels the need to even suggest this and thereby cast a shadow of suspicion, as though there's a reasonable possibility that his Calvinist brothers and sisters in Christ might believe in something that is damnable? Also note Chris' assumption that their beliefs are "extra biblical"; he seems quite certain of this and elsewhere supplies an explanation of why that is, and oddly enough - his reasons are based primarily on science and findings outside of scripture. November 16th, 2007 Post on Fishing The Abyss: Chris Lyons says about MacArthur's church: So if you're a church that has a reputation for being a large country club for self-righteous jerks, you might want to consider that perhaps you've given up the kingdom to become a pharisee. Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. So John MacArthur and Phil Johnson are apparently sons of hell and Calvinist pharisees who run a country club for jerks. So much for Chris Lyons' plea for "Christian charity and grace to brothers and sisters in Christ". So much for Chris' credibility. I would submit to you that Chris Lyons has provided for us an excellent template of how NOT to deal with fellow Christians who have differing theological beliefs. That's not to say that there is no room for debate, even vigorous debate. It's also not denying that sometimes we all get frustrated and say things that we regret. Unfortunately however, there will always be some folks who seem to think that others owe them charitable treatment that they themselves are not willing to give in return. What's odd is that Chris belongs to a movement that has this for a slogan: "In Essentials, Unity. In Non-essentials, Liberty. In All Things, Charity". After reviewing Chris Lyons' remarks on this page however, maybe it would be fitting to append these words to his church's slogan "Except in Theologies Chris Won't Tolerate, Then Anathema". More posts related to Chris Lyons: Pachyderm Theology - Refuting Chris Lyon's claims against 'fatalism', systematic theology, and predestination vs science, at Triablogue. White Elephant Theology - Steve Hays from Triablogue steps in to make further observations on the response from Chris Lyons' crew. Half-baked Science Meets Half-Baked Relativism - Triablogue on how Chris Lyons' rejection of Systematic Theology has lead to self-refuting relativism; Lyons' science lingo sounds a lot like Depak Chopra. No Views Contradict - A Postmodernist Guide To Keeping God Out of a Box. A response to Chris Lyons, on Strange Baptist Fire. Predestinarians Produce Bad Fruit? - Answering Chris Lyons' claim that ardent belief in Election results in bad fruit / poor evangelism, Old Truth Postmodernism's Clash With Calvinism, Strange Baptist Fire. Systematic Theology Leads to Divisive Failure, Chris Lyons Go back to the main page for CRN.INFO and Chris Lyons Posted by: Jim B.   Link: http://www.oldtruth.com/blog.cfm/id.2.pid.866          Home  |   About  |  Videos   |  Calvinism