Truth is ancient; it's grey hairs may make it venerable;
it comes from Him who is the ancient of days. --Thomas Watson

 

15 October, 2005   comments: (0) Today's Methods   Audience-Sovereignty 101, with Robert Schuller Meet your audience where they are at, be relevant in addressing perceived problems in their lives, keep your message positive and upbeat. Sound familiar? These are some of the prime directives for seeker-driven churches. Though many of these churches would not want to be identified with extremists like Robert Schuller, this Q&A session shows that he has a more obvious version of the same man-centered mindset. Here are a few excerpts from the two hour interview with Michael Horton on the White Horse Inn radio program. Listen to a 1 minute audio clip. This interview was conducted several years ago, with the Crystal Cathedral's Robert Schuller. HORTON: Would you be willing to address your congregation as a group as sinners? SCHULLER: No I don't think I need to do that. First of all, my congregation is a very mixed audience. HORTON: But our Lord's audiences were mixed with disciples and unbelievers both. SCHULLER: Oh yes, but I'll tell you, the audience is quite different that I talk to - than what the Lord spoke to. I speak every week to millions, not a million but millions of people in Russia on channel one. And I am speaking to a couple of million people every Sunday. HORTON: Are you saying that it is the size of the audience that matters? SCHULLER: No it's not the size of the audience, it's where are they at at this time. My only concern is: I don't want to drive them farther away than they are! And I listen to so many preachers on religious radio stations...and by golly, if I wasn't a Christian, they'd drive me farther away. I am so afraid that I am going to drive them farther; I want to attract them, and so I use the strategy that Jesus used. I preach the way Jesus preached. I don't preach, probably, the way Paul preached.... * * * * * SCHULLER: If we want to win people to Jesus we have to understand where they are at. HORTON: I agree absolutely. And they are in sin, that is where they are at. SCHULLER: They are in the state of condition called sin which means they don't trust. They are lacking faith. HORTON: I guess the difference would be our definition of sin, because what I see in scripture is that we're dead in sin and cannot respond to God even if we were trusting. SCHULLER: Oh no, you're wrong, you're wrong. And very seldom do use this language. People who know me say, "Schuller never comes across as if he knows the answers and others don't. It is not my style. But I intuitively say to you, you're wrong! The ultimate, deepest, most sinful problem that you can imagine is lack of trust. Hebrews 11:6, "For without faith it is impossible to please God." I can show you people, they believe the Bible is the Word of God from cover to cover, they believe that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary...but, they really don't have a relationship with Jesus. They have that head knowledge, that head information and unless you have a wonderful warm relationship, which means you are mutually friends, then you really don't have the faith. And there are people who live wonderful lives today. They don't commit adultery and they don't steal and they don't kill...if you go by what is sinful behavior they seem to be leading very fine lives. But they don't have faith.... HORTON: But isn't it because faith is the instrument through which we're justified before a God who otherwise would take account of us for our sins, not just our "not trusting..." SCHULLER: We are not justified by faith. HORTON: No, it is by grace through faith. SCHULLER: By grace through faith, that's right. HORTON: But what I'm asking is this. Justified from what? The wrath of God? SCHULLER: Oh! I'll never use that language HORTON: But the Bible does. SCHULLER: Yes, the Bible does, but the Bible is God's book to believers primarily. Listen, and then call me a heretic if you want to, but I'm interested in attracting people, and not driving them farther away. There is language I can and will use and there are times, if we are wise, there is language we will not use....If God is a God of love, how do we handle this concept of wrath? At the outset, on the surface, it appears to be a contradiction; maybe it is. I tell you this, I have come to the conclusion that I haven't stepped into the center of truth until I've dared to step into contradiction. The Bible is a contradiction: Old Testament--Law, New Testament--Grace. Jesus is a contradiction; totally human and totally God. HORTON: Of course we would say that that the dual nature of Christ is a mystery but not a contradiction. SCHULLER: It is a contradiction, but you know what? Contradictions are ultimate points of creativity... * * * * * SCHULLER: I do let people know how great their sins and miseries are. How do I do that? I don't do that by standing in a pulpit and telling them they're sinners. I don't do it that way. The way I do it is ask questions. Are you happy? Do you have problems, what are they? So then I come across as somebody who cares about them because every single human problem, if you look at it deeply enough, is rooted in the sinful condition. We agree on that. So the way I preach sin is by calling to attention what it does to them here and now, and their need for divine grace! HORTON: But what about what it does for them in eternity? SCHULLER: Listen, I believe in heaven. I believe in hell. But I don't know what happens there. I don't take it literally that it's a fire that never stops burning.. HORTON: SCHULLER: Jesus was not literal. See, now this is where you have differences of interpretation. I went to a different theological school than you did. And there are different denominations, like about four hundred in the United States of America, and we don't belong to the same denomination. In my denomination, Jesus stood outside Gehenna, the city dump, and said that's outside the walls, that's hell. And in the dump there were always worms, and there were fires.... . . . Continue reading more of this interview in Part 2. Read more about how Robert Schuller's success and ideas have inspired many of the most successful "seeker" churches in America, in this article from Bob DeWaay. Posted by: Jim B.   Link: http://www.oldtruth.com/blog.cfm/id.2.pid.80   Be the first to post a comment about this article        Home  |   About  |  RSS Feed  |  Contact