Thus says the Lord: "Stand by the roads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'" --Jeremiah 6:16

 

20 March, 2007   comments: (0) Purpose Drivenism   Mailbag 1: "You're Judging, Want Hell Preaching" I had a couple of emails sent to me this week from one Purpose Driven Life fan; this email concluded by saying "Jim, I ask you to talk to God and ask him if you are being caught up in criticism and judgment. Would it hurt to do that? None of us is complete. What we write is not complete. We are not perfect. Even John points out that the Bible is not complete, because it does not record all the things Jesus said and did. So why criticize Rick Warren for being incomplete? God is our father. Is a father's job to put the 'fear of hell' or the 'fear of God' in his children? Or did Jesus come to say by his life, God loves you!" I thought it would be useful to go through some of these thoughts together. I'll just go ahead and paste the full correspondence here, and then I'll give some closing remarks. The gentleman's name is Charles, and although I could not disagree with him more, I can tell that he is a friendly fellow and is trying to be helpful; I do appreciate that: C: Are you against a purpose-driven life? Don't you believe your life has a purpose? Try Psalms 139:15,16 Brother Charles Me: > Don't you believe your life has a purpose? Of course. > Try Psalms 139:15,16 Great passage. I believe it. > Are you against a purpose-driven life? Yes, I am very much against it. I'm against any book that abuses scripture the way that one does. Take some time to go through the Purpose Driven Life Discernment Tool, which examines all of the bible verses Rick Warren uses in the book: http://www.cicministry.org/berean.php --Jim from OldTruth.com C: So how is he abusing scripture? I will check the tool you mention. -cp Me: That's correct, the tool will demonstrate that for you. As a supplement, here is another page that addresses some of the specific scriptural issues: http://www.biblebb.com/files/pdl.htm I was at one time, a Purpose Driven Life small group leader and I have read the book cover to cover. --Jim C: I read the first few pages. I see comparison of versions of scripture, nothing more. So it seems to boil down to you don't like the versions he uses? You like the NASB? I was reading both sides of the page and they say the same thing. So where is the problem? -charles C: I see judgement, such as this statement" "Warren is not inspired by the Holy Spirit—". How does the author know this? - HE CANNOT, HE MADE A JUDGEMENT. JESUS SAYS, "JUDGE NOT LESS YE BE JUDGED..." It seems like the author of that criticism feels that Warren should be preaching hellfire and damnation. Is that REALLY what Jesus was all about? Oh maybe a part but read the passage from Isaiah again, do you see hellfire and damnation? If you don't then perhaps you should accuse Isaiah AND JESUS of not following the main principles of scripture as you see them. Read it again. Where is the hell and repentence? I believe in repentance. One has to but to accuse Isaiah and Jesus of neglecting the full exegesis of scripture strikes me as odd! Mat 18:19 Again I say to you that if two of you shall agree on earth as regarding anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them by My Father in Heaven. Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst. SO DO YOU THINK HE IS NOT THERE WHEN TWO OR THREE ARE GATHERED? Then how many does it take to get God to come? I THOUGHT THAT HE ALSO PROMISED "I WILL BE WITH YOU ALWAYS." Doesn't 'ALWAYS' cover the two or three? I see now that the problem is that there is a misunderstanding of the purpose of his book. His book summarizes the Christian life quite well. Is it perfect? OF COURSE NOT. Can any one book cover every topic necessary for the Christian life? OF COURSE NOT! Even John indicated that the BIBLE WAS INCOMPLETE. "Joh 21:25 And there are also many things, whatever Jesus did, which, if they should be written singly, I suppose the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen. " SO NOW ARE YOU AND YOUR ILK COMPLAINING THAT THE BIBLE DOESN'T COVER ENOUGH DOCTRINE? Do you believe in the gift of discerning of spirits? Well whether you do or not, I detect a spirit. That spirit is the spirit of "NOT GOOD ENOUGH". Even John writes that the Bible is not complete, but you criticize a MUCH SHORTER BOOK and complain that it is NOT ACCURATE OR COMPLETE ENOUGH. Do you not know that every book, including books of the Bible are written for different purposes? Why do Mathew Mark Luke and JOhn all have different stuff in them and some more complete in some areas than others? So would you like to tell me which books are "LOOSE PARAPHRASES" and which are accurate according to you? Do you believe in helping people come to the knowledge of salvation? If you do, how many are won by your methods? I know numbers are not the most important but surely if you read the passage which Jesus read in the temple to explain his purpose and calling, you cannot think his purpose was to discern the exegesis of the Torah or Tanakh? [old testament to us] Here it is again. [Charles pasted in Luke 4:17-21 here] I see only the spirit of criticism, the spirit of judgement in all the things I read. I did not read everything but certainly that is the intent of that commentary you steered me to. JUDGEMENT IS WRONG ACCORDING TO JESUS TEACHINGS REGARDLESS OF WHETHER WE CALL IT THAT OR NOT. Do you believe what it says in Corinthians? Or do you explain it away somehow? [Charles pasted in the entire chapter of 1 Cor 12 here] Jim, I ask you to talk to God and ask him if you are being caught up in criticism and judgement. Would it hurt to do that? None of us is complete. What we write is not complete. We are not perfect. Even John points out that the Bible is not complete, because it does not record all the things Jesus said and did. So why criticize Rick Warren for being incomplete? God is our father. Is a father's job to put the 'fear of hell' or the 'fear of God' in his children? Or did Jesus come to say by his life, "God loves you! He loves you SO MUCH that he sent me His only son to die so you would see how much he cares and turn to Him" I believe that is what Rick Warren is doing by his book, telling us how much God cares. not how much he delights in throwing us into hell or how we don't measure up because we aren't being good enough. I earnestly request that you ask God about your attitude. It can't hurt can it? Your brother Charles Unfortunately, I don't have time to respond to all of those points; perhaps some Old Truth readers can pick up on some of the areas that I leave off. Charles, the most serious thing that I'm seeing in your response is - it appears that you do not believe in the sufficiency of scripture and/or the fact that scripture is complete. The (John 21:25) passage that you cited does not indicate that scripture is incomplete; it's simply saying that all of the details of Jesus' life were not recorded. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 tells us that there is nothing lacking in scripture: All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work. The criticism that says Rick Warren's book in not complete, is not being overly picky in saying he somehow didn't talk about every issue under the sun. No, the incompleteness has to do with core issues that should be mentioned in a book like his, but are not. I think you are also misapplying "do not judge". Christians are in fact commanded to (non-hypocritically) judge those inside the church. It is important to judge leaders who make public statements about what is true. It is unloving to the sheep to not warn them of false teachers. Lastly, I'm not sure what you read that makes you believe that opponents of Rick Warren want hellfire preaching constantly. I certainly wouldn't like my pastor preaching on hell every week, that would be as out of balance as a church that only preaches about God's love every week. Perhaps what you read was more of a call towards that balance, recognizing that Rick Warren rarely if ever preaches about things like judgment and wrath. Preaching the full counsel of God is what we are after, not just the preaching of the positive and appealing parts of the bible. I've now posted the other email that Charles sent me, dealing with whether we should be man-centered, and whether God would be selfish to do everything for his own glory. If anyone can offer in gentleness any further comments related to Charles' email (above), based on what you know to be true from scripture, your help would be valuable. Posted by: Jim B.   Link: http://www.oldtruth.com/blog.cfm/id.2.pid.638   Be the first to post a comment about this article        Home  |   About  |  Videos   |  Calvinism