Truth is ancient; it's grey hairs may make it venerable;
it comes from Him who is the ancient of days. --Thomas Watson

 

3 December, 2006   comments: (0) Today's Synergism   Debating Unto The Glory of God - Is That Possible? You are not going to convince anyone by debating. When Christians argue, the whole Church suffers. They will know we are Christians by our love for each other, not by how well we beat each other up with the bible. Have you heard some of those sentiments before? Sometimes discussions between Christians do get out of hand, but those kinds of excuses are convenient for Christians who wish to remain intellectually unchallenged in their traditions. I'm happy to report that this isn't always the case however; one example being the longest thread ever on Old Truth (240+ comments). It's a story of an age-old debate, and a few pastors and laymen who gathered here in cyberspace over several days, to reexamine it with their bibles open. Some will be surprised to find out that the result was neither stalemate nor digression into conquest-driven bickering. The owner of a popular blog had this to say just prior to shutting down a theological discussion that sprouted in the comments of a blog post: "There are two subjects that I try to avoid because they seem to turn otherwise kind and peace-loving believers into savages. Eschatology, and Calvinism vs. Armenianism are the two topics that never cease to do it. I know that it is an interesting debate but in that it ends up with readers catapulting metaphorical goats at each other, it probably is best left for debate elsewhere. Let's fulfill the great commission and let God be responsible for saving those He will." Needless to say, that is not the way that I feel; we've never been afraid to talk about difficult bible topics here on Old Truth, especially ones relating to the salvation of souls. I do admit that there are people with an axe to grind, who can pollute an otherwise friendly theological discussion, but the fear of this happening is not sufficient grounds for banning all debate. Previous centuries of Christians were often more thick-skinned than today's believers, and were not afraid to intellectually engage those with different ideas. They even schooled their children in logic and rhetoric, to help equip them for the eventuality of opposition. It wasn't enough for them to just know biblical doctrine, they had to be able to explain and defend it as well. With all of that in mind, I'd like to share with you the story of Pastor Jody; you've probably noticed him in the comments here on Old Truth in the past few months. This is not a story about "winning" a fight, or beating-up other Christians, or of flexing intellectual muscles. Instead, it's a story of a humble attempt by everyone involved, to stand for biblical truth regardless of the consequences. From Pastor Jody: Recently I was asked to give the story of my defection from the Arminian theology to a "more reformed" theology and how that process took place. So I will do my best to do just that in the most concise and articulate way I can (even though I often feel limited in those regards). Let me start by saying that I am one of those who would prefer the terms "reformed theology" and "doctrine of election" over "Calvinism" and "TULIP" simply because the latter stirs up the arguments that we hold to the teachings of a man or that the entirety of our theology is based solely on five "man-made" points and not on the whole council of Scripture. That being said let's move forward. I am a first generation Pentecostal pastor. I was raised in a Christian home by God-fearing parents. Growing up I had the stereotypical Arminian "salvation experiences". I "got saved" 15 or 20 times as a kid. I rode the heavenly yo-yo of salvation-backsliding-salvation-backsliding quite a bit. When I was 19 years old, I had a life-changing encounter with the Holy Spirit while I was alone in my dorm room at Georgia Southern University. I had enough Gospel in me from my childhood to save all of India, but I was truly saved myself until that point. That is when the true, repenting, regenerating, no-turning-back, rebirth took place in my life. There was no altar call, no church building, no minister. It was just me and God's Holy Spirit in that room. My attitude that day and since has been "God you are real. Not because my mama and daddy say so; not because my preacher says so; but because you have revealed yourself to me. You are true. Your word is true. Guide me in your ways and keep me from my own!" Ever since then I have had a deep hunger to know what God's Word truly teaches, not man. A few months after that I answered "the call" to become a pastor and transferred to a Lee University to receive training for the ministry. After receiving a B.S. in Pastoral Ministries, I took a job as youth pastor at Hephzibah Church of God. For four years, I worked to build a youth group of 4-6 kids into a youth ministry of about 40-45. Sad to say it was with fun, games, and "easy believism". This is when the noticeable challenges and changes started to take place. After four years of youth ministry, I felt the nudge of God leading in new directions. The church was growing. The youth group was growing. We liked the people and they liked us. But God led us and opened a door for us to take a congregation of about 30-40 folks in a small rural town. It was hear that I felt God "grooming Moses". I learned tons about true leadership and the responsibility to God that it carries. It was during this time that God opened my eyes to the emotional excesses in a lot of Pentecostal churches. (I am not a cessationist. However, I would be the first to stand up and say that most of what is attributed to the work of the Holy Spirit is little more than man-made emotionalism.) - Example: We would experience people being "slain in the Spirit" fairly regularly in our altar services. After being there a couple of years, I removed "the catchers" and this phenomenon quickly stopped. I read an article not long ago of another pastor that had a similar experience. It was also during this time that the Lord began to reveal to me the dangers of "keeping up appearances" and doing things for numbers sake. God began to give me the holy boldness and Godly wisdom to preach the true Word of God, uncut, uncompromised, and without a hint of candy coating. Long story short, I am now back at the church where I was once youth pastor. I am now the senior pastor at HCOG. And I am not making the same mistakes I made earlier. Enough background, on to the nitty-gritty of the topic. I do a lot of online study for sermon prep and personal growth (I view the internet as the world's biggest library that fits on in my laptop). I stumbled across a Slice of Laodicea posting that was dealing with election in some shape or form. This "all-knowing, well-meaning Spirit-filled" brother was going to share some understanding with those misguided Calvinists. So, I posted a comment. I can't even remember what it said, but Jim responded and invited me to check out a discussion that was going on at that time on Old Truth. I checked it out and saw the same "Calvinist dribble" that I had heard for years. So, I thought I would engage the conversation and set some people straight. As I entered into dialogue with these people that I had never seen or met, an interesting thing occurred. Even though we were "arguing" points that were polar opposites, I became aware of the tremendous amount of brotherly love that was being shown to me by these people. They never resorted to name calling. They never belittled me or attacked me personally. They carefully and concisely dealt with the topic at hand. Almost without exception, they answered every question and/or objection that I had with Scripturally-based answers. This "Sola Scriptura" approach is what ultimately allowed "my eyes to be opened". Before that time if you were to ask me if I believed in "Sola Scriptura", I would have answered with a resounding "YES". However, truth be told, I really believed in what I thought scripture said or what I wanted scripture to say. Most of my objections to the doctrine of election were not based in scripture. They were based on my opinions, views, and background. As the discussion continued, these Christian brothers lovingly, patiently, and firmly pointed that out. They kept me on task. They continued to demand Scriptural evidence for what I said I believed. If I tried to pass off my opinions or philosophy as being authoritative, they would point out the fallacy of such arguments. Somewhere in the discussion, something else changed. I found myself no longer trying to prove myself right and my "opponents" wrong. I found myself, as many other times in my walk with the Lord, wanting to find God's truth, no matter whose side of the fence it fell on. This was the birth of what is now one of my favorite questions to ask people who are in the position that I was in: "Do you prefer to be Biblical or 'right'?" I found that I was so gung-ho about proving me and my views to be right that I failed to read scripture for what it said. I read my views into scripture. I was actually doing what I tell my congregation not to do. I always tell them, "Scripture speaks to us. We never speak to it." I was actually telling God what he meant in certain verses rather than letting the whole council of scripture tell me what God meant. As time went by and the discussion continued, I looked more and more into scripture. I bought the Bible on CD and listened to the book of Romans over and over again. Slowly and gradually I began to see that this "Calvinist dribble" was actually set firmly in the bedrock of Scripture. Certain text that used to be "difficult passages" suddenly were not so difficult. Pastor Jody, I'm thankful that you had joined-in the discussion here, and am also thankful to the others who participated as well, including TJ, WilliamIII, Jason, Mark S., and Scott O. We wish you well in your church and family and pray for God's guidance and empowerment in your ministry. Please pray for Pastor Jody, and also for this website, that it would be useful in promoting biblical thinking and biblically-centered evangelism. Towards that end, I will not avoid controversy, the occasional debate, and the proclamation of uncomfortable truth. Pastor Jody's story holds out hope that this can be done in a charitable manner, and unto the glory of God. Posted by: Jim B.   Link: http://www.oldtruth.com/blog.cfm/id.2.pid.563   Be the first to post a comment about this article        Home  |   About  |  Videos   |  Calvinism