Truth is ancient; it's grey hairs may make it venerable;
it comes from Him who is the ancient of days. --Thomas Watson

 

21 March, 2007   comments: (0) Purpose Drivenism   Mailbag 2: "You're Saying God is Selfish" This is the second email sent to me by one Purpose Driven Life fan. In this conversation, he attempts to make the case that God is man-centered (not God-centered) and that's why Christ came to die for us. In this conversation the idea of God doing all things for His own glory is rejected because it is thought that this would mean that He is selfish. This is the second conversation with a man named Charles who emailed me this week, you can also read the first conversation related more specifically to Purpose Driven. Once again, I'll just paste the correspondence here, and then I'll give additional remarks: C: Was Jesus man-centred or God-centred? If he was man-centred, would he not give up his good life in heaven and come to earth, why? just to save we ignorant souls. If he was God-centred, why would he leave heaven? Remember when Jesus was asked about the greatest commandment? What did he say? Sometimes the problem can be if we think something is either/or rather than BOTH. Love your brother, Charles Me: Charles: Whatever Christ did for man ultimately centers around His own glory. As Romans 11:36 says: For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen. --Jim from OldTruth.com C: Now Jim, who would you believe more? The man himself or what others tell you? What did Jesus say when he was in the synagogue? The Gospel was "good news for mankind" not "Hey look you sinning clods, I came to get you plebes to glorify me! So get on your knees!"(exaggeration intended) So I have a lot of trouble trying to figure out where you are coming from, Jim. Are there TWO gospels? [Charles pasted in Luke 4:17-21 here] Now I recognize the psychological principle of cognitive dissonance which basically says the same as the old common proverb "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." However I am assuming you are not old and set in your ways and open to listen to scripture, Jim. See caps below. Jim wrote: Whatever Christ did for man ultimately centers around His own glory. SO ARE YOU SAYING HE CAME TO BE SELFISH AND GET EVERYONE OR GOD TO GLORIFY HIM? I wish in this case that Charles would have made some effort to deal with the scripture (Romans 11:36) that I gave him, and make some attempt at working that passage into his theology. Instead, he seems to skip over it and jump to the conclusion that I am somehow going off of "what others tell me". (not sure if he means the Apostle Paul or some other man) I appreciate what Charles said about some things "not being an either/or but a both". Clearly we see God making man the focal point of creation and providence throughout scripture. It's true that Christ came to save sinners, and this plan of redemption was oriented around man. Christ could have stayed in heaven and not come to earth to do that for man. But none of that addresses the end (the ultimate reason) for which God does all of these things. The passage in Romans 11:36 is one of the places in scripture where we see that everything is done for His glory. Having just addressed this scripturally, I now want to switch gears and turn to the person who does the best job that I've seen of expounding this most important topic of God's glory. In my opinion, that is Jonathan Edwards, from the 18th century. Really, the Puritans of the previous century had an excellent grasp on the glory of God, but this spilled over into Edwards, and he has written some tremendous things about it. Edwards expounded scripture to show that all men are created to bring God glory. Sometimes you hear modern preachers say "people who don't come to Christ can't bring God any glory", but that is totally false. What is true, is that they don't glorify God in the same way as the redeemed. To elaborate on this, Edwards preached a chilling sermon entitled Wicked Men Useful in their Destruction Only. The most useful writing of Edwards on the topic of God's glory, and my favorite thing that he ever wrote, is his lengthy dissertation called The End For Which God Created The World. I remember reading this in my backyard one summer day, being floored by this presentation of the glory of God. Ever since then, I've often thought of this work by Edwards as being the real "Purpose Driven Life", because it so carefully explains why you exist, and what you are here for. And it all revolves around bringing God glory, and in fact, being a reflector of God's own glory back to him. But do yourself a favor, and cheat by reading a cleaned up and reformatted version of The End For Which God Created The World. You'll find it in the second half of John Piper's book "God's Passion For His Glory" which you can read online for free. Even if you are not a Piper fan, read the second half of that book! Here's an excerpt that I think addresses Charles' misunderstanding: The ultimate end of the work of redemption is the glory of God It is manifest from Scripture that God's glory is the last end of that great work of providence, the work of redemption by Jesus Christ. This is manifest from what is just now observed, of its being the end ultimately sought by Jesus Christ the Redeemer. And if we further consider the texts mentioned in the proof of that, and take notice of the context, it will be very evident, that it was what Christ sought as his last end, in that great work which he came into the world upon, viz. to procure redemption for his people. It is manifest that Christ professes in John 7:18 that he did not seek his own glory in what he did, but the glory of him that sent him ["He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who is seeking the glory of the One who sent Him, He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him"]. He means in the work of his ministry, the work he performed and which he came into the world to perform, which is the work of redemption. And with respect to that text, John 12:27, 28 ["'Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, 'Father, save Me from this hour'? But for this purpose I came to this hour. 'Father, glorify Your name.' Then a voice came out of heaven: 'I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.'"], it has been already observed that Christ comforted himself in the view of the extreme difficulty of his work, in the prospect of the highest, ultimate, and most excellent end of that work, which he set his heart most upon and delighted most in. And in the answer that the Father made him from heaven at that time, in the latter part of the same verse, John 12:28: "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again," the meaning plainly is that God had glorified his name in what Christ had done, in the work he sent him upon; and would glorify it again, and to a greater degree, in what he should further do, and in the success thereof. That Jonathan Edwards excerpt was from page 203 of the book, but back on page 158 - John Piper has a footnote that seems to speak directly to Charles' concern of a selfish God: When we see that God's passion for his own glory leads him to share that passion with us, we also see why his passion for himself is not "selfish" in a pejorative sense. God is the one being in the universe for whom self-exaltation is the highest virtue and the most loving act... I am so delighted to be a part of the Reformed heritage, with one of the reasons being that this truth of God's glory is interwoven into almost every doctrine, methodology, and sermon. This goes down to the smallest details. When I took a couple of weeks off of blogging last summer to build our church's website, one thing our leadership told me was to put Romans 11:36 (everything for God's glory) at the top of every page of the website. God's glory is the reason for everything, it's our reason for living; God's glory realized is to us - the true purpose driven life. That's a point that I wish Rick Warren would have spent his book talking about. When the fans of his book write me emails that clearly demonstrate that they've missed the boat on this most important understanding of the glory of God, it further suggests that Rick Warren's book has failed to convey what it should have. Posted by: Jim B.   Link: http://www.oldtruth.com/blog.cfm/.id.2.pid.639   Be the first to post a comment about this article        Home  |   About  |  Videos   |  Calvinism